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  • Dear Management:


    Xephy

    Thoughts?  

    15 members have voted

    1. 1. Agree/Disagree?

      • Completely farfetched, I disagree.
        0
      • There's room for improvement.
        5
      • Things need to change.
        10


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    After re-reading my initial post and having conversations with a few staff members. It seems that the point I made and what stuck with them was far from what I'd intended initially. I'd like to take the time to rephrase and reword what I wrote to properly convey what I had intended on conveying initially. My apologies to anybody who thought I was deliberately blaming select members of the staff team. That was the last thing I wanted it to seem like I was doing.

     

    I'll leave the old post in a spoiler below for those who are confused, etc etc etc.

     

    I still definitely think that DreamBot has gone downhill lately. I don't think anybody is to blame in specific. I titled this post towards the management because I feel that they can help set the tone for things to come much easier than the rest of us. I believe that the management needs to hold a role in holding us scripters to a higher standard, because I utterly hate seeing complaints about things not working and the scripters (even if they're active), not doing anything about it.

     

    With what @Articron and @Nuclear Nezz stated about how it should be on the scripters, I completely agree. That was an intended point in the original post, but I clearly didn't convey the message well.

     

    For the problems stated in the original post:

     

    I still think there should be some sort of temporary SDN manager in case something happens (like our current one moving houses) to help him not fall behind as he gets things situated.

     

    I also wholehearted support the idea of having a more convenient payment system, because a majority of the users aren't comfortable with putting credit card information in through the forums. 

     

    Lastly, I believe everybody should be held to a higher standard regarding SDN quality, customer handling, and refunds. Articron stated that refunds are absolutely unacceptable to have happen as often as they do, and that is entirely correct. Even though the scripters aren't legitimate business owners, they determine the kind of reputation DreamBot has, and if somebody's scripts aren't up to par, it makes DreamBot look far worse than it does the scripter. That is why I believe everybody should begin promoting a higher standard of scripts.

     

    As far as solutions go, perhaps we should begin having a more rigorous requirement system in place before allowing new SDN scripts to be pushed.

     

    Old post:

     

    As of lately, I've felt like the management for both the forums and SDN have been lacking. There's been quite a few unattended refund requests (from what I've seen), and pretty big lapses in productivity when it comes to SDN compiles and hotfixes to broken things being pushed to the current launcher.

     

    I'm not making this thread to bash anybody, but I'd like to see something done. I'd also like to hear everybody's thoughts on these problems and any others y'all can think of.

     

    A proposal:

     

    Problem: There's been times where it's extremely hard to contact the current SDN manager, and I feel that a lot more can come out of having two or more rather than one.

     

    Solution: Have multiple backup SDN managers, or multiple SDN managers so that they may cover lapses in the other's presence.

      : Perhaps one of these people could primarily look at cleaning up the SDN and handling refunds and broken script reports.

     

    Problem: I've noticed that sales have been lacking ever since the denial of PayPal as a payment system. I feel that it'd be in everybody's benefit to somehow have more payment systems available when purchasing VIP, SDN scripts, Sponsorship, etc. A lot of new botters aren't familiar with how vouchers work, and I've found that without proper explanation, they'll just leave and find bots elsewhere.

     

    Solution: Use https://www.bmtmicro.com/ as a payment system. They will handle PayPal transactions for you, allow BitPay, credit cards, etc. This prevents the seller (DreamBot) from having to deal with a limited PayPal account. They charge a 2.5% transaction fee, but I feel that with an increase in sales overall, it should nullify the 2.5% that BMTMicro keeps. I'm also not opposed to scripter revenue being decreased by 2.5% to cover some of the 2.5% that BMTMicro keeps.

     

    Edit: I know a lot of RSPSs that use this to avoid limited PayPal accounts.

    Proof: 

    SdvHO3x.png

     

     

    I've just noticed that everybody I've talked to in private has said that DreamBot has been going quite downhill lately, and I can't say I disagree.

     

     

     

     

    Sincerely, Xephy.

     

     

     

     

     

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    The only reason Banana is struggling right now is because of personal issues which should be resolved soon enough...

     

    You guys seem to forget that Banana is actually really on top of things when he's not dealing with stuff. When everything's fine with him requests take a few hours to a day tops... Just wait for him to get his IRL sorted.

     

     

    Edit

     

    After re-reading this topic, I think I'm actually going to just spit out what's been on my mind.

     

    Banana indeed has the responsibility of managing our store, but that's not the core of the problem.

     

    Tl;dr: you should have called this topic "Dear scripters" instead

     

    An analogy:

     

    Friends visit your house, and its a mess. Do you blame the cleaning lady? That's a very easy way of forwarding the shitstorm.

    The biggest responsibility of whether or not you get sales connects back to the scripters

    And boy do I have an opinion about the current group of scripters.

     

     

    Proof of my point:

    @@Roma 's quester has more than 20K views and seems to be doing rather well. Even if it has bugs, he clearly shows interest in maintaining and expanding his script. His script was posted in August 2017, its barely been up for 5 months. That's 4K+ views a month. 

    Other scripts, which I am not going to name, have less success because of the real problem.

     

    The real problem:

    Scripters limit themselves to simple, linear, single-job scripts that are easy to write and could be considered an attempt at a quick cash-grab.

    Compare this to other communities: The scripters try to one-up each other constantly. Survival of the fittest. We are way too complacent

     

    Is it lack of knowledge/experience? I think the current Scripter+ test is not sufficient to determine if you're eligible to sell actual software that represents Dreambot.

     

    I agree that things need to change, but let's tackle the problem at the core. IMO, scripters should be re-evaluated with a new S+ test, which I know Nezz will never allow as I know for a fact 60-80% of the current scripter+ group would fail such assessement. To go back to the analogy: It's better to have a shit house than having no house at all right?

     

     

    I see scripters "approving" refund requests for their scripts. What the fuck are you doing? Don't you believe in the product you've written? 

    First of all, scripters dont have the authority to approve such requests. When such a refund request is posted, you're being put on the spot because you've acted indifferently about a persistent bug/flaw in your script. You have no right of saying "well then just take your money back". Refunds should never, or only under very severe circumstances, be posted, let alone approved. When you "approve" a refund request, you're literally taking money out of the developer's wallets.

     

     

    As for the payment problem:

    If we ever reach a point in which we can proudly present our store with robust, reliable scripts, people will be more inclined to find ways to pay for that script, even if its through Stripe/the crediting system.

     

    I have high hopes for Dreambot 3. Fixing our store's current state is going to be a job without ending. I strongly believe DB3 has to handle things a lot more strict in terms of script releases. If your script is bugged, and you know it, you're essentially scamming members.

     

     

    Disclaimer: If anyone thinks I'm somehow feeling entitled to bitch about it because I'm Scripter++, you're wrong. I've had this opinion for longer than I've had this rank. You don't see any refund requests on my ArtiMTA script, because it actually works

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    I agree. I understand everyone has a life and stuff to deal with, but unfortunately Pan seems to go inactive for a period of time and just come back.

     

    I think Banana is fine as the sole SDN manager. The guy is super helpful and nice and for me, does the job pretty quick. As far as SDN compilations atm though, from what I've been told is that Banana doesnt have sufficient rights currently to approve SDN requests and the only person who can solve this is Pan, who happens to be inactive atm. I think Pan needs to give Nezz more control or something so that Nezz can do whatever is needed incase of Pan's absence.

     

    Also im pretty sure I read that Pan was due to come back on the 20th but he's still not here. :(

     

    I dont think this topic should have been posted here though, maybe in the scripters section.

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    Alright well, I guess I'll throw my thoughts in here a bit too.

    1. If you want me to go through and remove inactive scripters and their scripts, we'll lose like 70% of our sdn. Not all of them are broken.

    2. You have no idea how salty I get when I look at a refund request and there's no response from the scripter in any way, shape or form (hence my post in the scripter section)

    3. You have no idea how much more salty I get when the scripter's response is "I approve of this refund" with no explanation.

     

    I don't know what refund requests you're talking about, I went through and cleared them like 5 days ago, except for a few that were waiting on more information.

     

    I do strongly agree with Arti, I think a good portion of the SDN problems are just due to scripter complacency. I mean, clearly we do need to go through and start emptying out some of the scripts (a job Banana said he'd do over time, as it's not a 1 day thing)

    I also believe we were way too lenient on the S+ test, and it will absolutely be changed for DB3 along with general coding guidelines and base script requirements, which is something Pan tried to do a long time ago, and was completely ignored.

    Also keep in mind, some of the people who most strongly agreed with Pan were the ones who ended up ignoring his guidelines. It's unreasonable to assume we can test every script, but it's not unreasonable for us to think the scripter has.

     

    I mean, I appreciate the input on these things, but it really does seem like you're just trying to make it as public as you can about your grievances. These are probably things you should have contacted us about yourself, rather than walking to the rooftops and shouting it for all to hear. Mostly since these are more scripter related issues than general public issues.

     

    We can only use payment platforms that IPB supports. We're not going to write our own, for my end I just don't know enough about security to be confident in my ability to write a safe payment acceptance thing.

     

    Banana does a great job as an SDN manager, as far as I can see, until he gets bottlenecked by issues that are not within his control.

     

    To conclude:
    1. we will not have more than one sdn manager, but if you want to talk to banana about looking through the forums for inactive scripts that have a lot of complaints yourself so that you can report them, you're completely free to do that.

    2. It's very unlikely that we'll add another payment platform. I could look into doing a post on how to use vouchers, though (or if someone who uses them often wants to do it, I could pin it) and I'll add that link to the welcome message.

     

    So, really if you want to suggest solutions, you could think on a few of these, which are things I try to actively think about but never come up with an overall "good" solution that doesn't hurt more than it helps.

    1. How would you suggest actually clearing scripts without skinning the fuck out of the SDN? I know the current S+ people aren't going to go out of their way to make more free scripts lol

    2. What are possible solutions you have on getting scripters to more readily respond to refund requests or general script issues?

    3. How would you suggest we encourage scripters to actively watch their threads and scripts for issues?

    4. How would you suggest we enforce "general scripting" guidelines?

     

    It's also unhelpful when scripters just blame banana for their script's issues by saying he's been inactive for a much longer period of time than he has been.

    eg: You on your fishing trawler script thread. (in that case not blaming him, but just suggesting that he's been MIA for *WEEKS*?)

    Doing things like this thread, that post, and the general behavior surrounding all of these issues puts off a very strong "scripter vs management" mentality, which in the end just redirects blame to other people, rather than allowing us to do our jobs. It gets to the point of a user sees a bug in a script and says "oh management is messing up this script" and then doesn't even bother reporting the bug because they think it's probably already in the works of being fixed.

     

    Do you have any fuckin idea how many people I get messaging me "Hey can you approve this scripter's request? His script has been bugged for a month" and I look to find no request, along with no response from that scripter even saying he made a request?

    Too

    Fucking
    Many.

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    Alright well, I guess I'll throw my thoughts in here a bit too.

    1. If you want me to go through and remove inactive scripters and their scripts, we'll lose like 70% of our sdn. Not all of them are broken.

    2. You have no idea how salty I get when I look at a refund request and there's no response from the scripter in any way, shape or form (hence my post in the scripter section)

    3. You have no idea how much more salty I get when the scripter's response is "I approve of this refund" with no explanation.

     

    I don't know what refund requests you're talking about, I went through and cleared them like 5 days ago, except for a few that were waiting on more information.

     

    I do strongly agree with Arti, I think a good portion of the SDN problems are just due to scripter complacency. I mean, clearly we do need to go through and start emptying out some of the scripts (a job Banana said he'd do over time, as it's not a 1 day thing)

    I also believe we were way too lenient on the S+ test, and it will absolutely be changed for DB3 along with general coding guidelines and base script requirements, which is something Pan tried to do a long time ago, and was completely ignored.

    Also keep in mind, some of the people who most strongly agreed with Pan were the ones who ended up ignoring his guidelines. It's unreasonable to assume we can test every script, but it's not unreasonable for us to think the scripter has.

     

    I mean, I appreciate the input on these things, but it really does seem like you're just trying to make it as public as you can about your grievances. These are probably things you should have contacted us about yourself, rather than walking to the rooftops and shouting it for all to hear. Mostly since these are more scripter related issues than general public issues.

     

    We can only use payment platforms that IPB supports. We're not going to write our own, for my end I just don't know enough about security to be confident in my ability to write a safe payment acceptance thing.

     

    Banana does a great job as an SDN manager, as far as I can see, until he gets bottlenecked by issues that are not within his control.

     

    To conclude:

    1. we will not have more than one sdn manager, but if you want to talk to banana about looking through the forums for inactive scripts that have a lot of complaints yourself so that you can report them, you're completely free to do that.

    2. It's very unlikely that we'll add another payment platform. I could look into doing a post on how to use vouchers, though (or if someone who uses them often wants to do it, I could pin it) and I'll add that link to the welcome message.

     

    So, really if you want to suggest solutions, you could think on a few of these, which are things I try to actively think about but never come up with an overall "good" solution that doesn't hurt more than it helps.

    1. How would you suggest actually clearing scripts without skinning the fuck out of the SDN? I know the current S+ people aren't going to go out of their way to make more free scripts lol

    2. What are possible solutions you have on getting scripters to more readily respond to refund requests or general script issues?

    3. How would you suggest we encourage scripters to actively watch their threads and scripts for issues?

    4. How would you suggest we enforce "general scripting" guidelines?

     

    It's also unhelpful when scripters just blame banana for their script's issues by saying he's been inactive for a much longer period of time than he has been.

    eg: You on your fishing trawler script thread. (in that case not blaming him, but just suggesting that he's been MIA for *WEEKS*?)

    Doing things like this thread, that post, and the general behavior surrounding all of these issues puts off a very strong "scripter vs management" mentality, which in the end just redirects blame to other people, rather than allowing us to do our jobs. It gets to the point of a user sees a bug in a script and says "oh management is messing up this script" and then doesn't even bother reporting the bug because they think it's probably already in the works of being fixed.

     

    Do you have any fuckin idea how many people I get messaging me "Hey can you approve this scripter's request? His script has been bugged for a month" and I look to find no request, along with no response from that scripter even saying he made a request?

    Too

    Fucking

    Many.

    Il write a how to use voucher for dummies just assumed there already was one  :doge:/

     

    il do it tonight when i has time

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    Sum some shit up, I'm in a moving process that has gone completely south and I'm behind.

     

    I'm in a place now in which I can access the SDN, just waiting for my information to be updated again, so I can complete said requests.

     

    I'm VERY easy to get in contact with, via forums, Skype, as I'm on both, every day. Currently not on discord as much due to said move, but I'm ALWAYS available via forums or Skype.

     

    The SDN has been moving forward with cleaning out broken scripts and removing/hiding those scripts from the store as-well, there's actually a post for this in which it's a community effort, I myself don't have the time to test EVERY script on the SDN to see what is and isn't broken.

     

    As far as I know, the majority of scripts that have been reported *within the last month or so* have either been 100% removed from the SDN, hidden from the store until fixed, or given a warning to fix said script.

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