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  • Scammed of 90mil (+30 mil service charge)


    acemad

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    Going to address some things real quick, before we come to any decision on this dispute. This will be a quick summary where I'll also point out some potential misconceptions.

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    After payment I logged off and he claimed I was 3rd in line behind 2 others but that he would "afk" mine for me in the mean time. No clue what AFK mining means but to me the only true AFK mining would mean botting...but that's somewhat irrelevant.

    "AFK mining" can refer to a non-attentive way of playing the game. Think sand crabs training. It's a perfectly valid way to train and level up an account.

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    Idk how I would have known it was gone if I never logged on.

    I think he's trying to suggest that the unexpected login from the service-buyer is the login that cleaned the account. It does breach the chain of custody, in that someone else other than service-provider also accessed the account during that period. If you were curious about the account progress, you could have messaged the service-provider directly first. You should only log on the account to check if there was legitimate reason for you to be worried about the service on your account.

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    You will not log into the account while service is in operation.

    That said, this clause in the service-provider's ToS doesn't absolve himself completely of responsibility, especially since the service-buyer would've needed to eventually to log on the account to see that his account got cleaned. Even if he logged on only at the end of the service, he still could have then reported that there was unaccounted-for missing items. In the case of the service-provider being a scammer, for the service-buyer to unconditionally respect such a clause would mean to put his account at more risk. If the buyer has reason to believe his account is at risk, he would naturally log on the account to check.

    The truth should be one of the following conclusions.

    A: Service-buyer trying to pull a scam, framing the person for cleaning his account so he can get unjust reimbursement.

    B: Service-provider trying to pull a quick scam, thinking he can get away with it against someone with zero reputation and feedback.

    C Negligence or genuine mistake by one of them. Service-provider admitted to installing TeamViewer and leaving it running on his computer, unmonitored. It's implied too then that he left it on default settings, which aren't the most secure. But even then, it is very unlikely to have the computer compromised in such a brief period unless TeamViewer access credentials were negligently given out.

    This dispute is a case of "He said, she said." We'll do our best on the staff team to come to the most reasoned and likely conclusion, based on the limited unsubstantiated and circumstantial evidence we have to work with.

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    @Nex we're gonna need your input on who talked to you about getting him banned, along with screenshots if available.

     

    @Viision as you say there are no connections in your TV logs, then I would assume it's not negligence. Granted, it's definitely possible for someone to modify/remove logs before they close teamviewer.

    Either way, I'm inclined to believe nobody accessed the account through your Teamviewer. Worst case scenario, it would have given you an "out" of sorts, if you had actually been the one to take the gold. Removing that option from the table is not "beneficial" so to speak, so it seems more valid.

    @acemad did you have any screenshots (with the date) of the account after you found out it had been cleaned? You have to realize, anybody can plop some placeholders in their bank and say they were cleaned. There is validity in the fact that if you were curious of your progress, you could have hiscore'd the account, or just asked him for a progress update. In 2 days, if he had people ahead of you, I wouldn't expect him to get much done. It's not unreasonable for him to put your account behind services he's already doing.

    By logging in to his account, *you* are the only access to the account that was "not authorized" at the time of the service. If he had finished the service, and you had found things missing, then you'd have a very legitimate issue on your hands. Doubly so if the service wasn't finished.

    Asking for a higher price isn't shady, that's him seeing someone else is getting paid more to do the same work, and so as a very logical conclusion, he decided he should be paid more too.

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    @acemad did you have any screenshots (with the date) of the account after you found out it had been cleaned? You have to realize, anybody can plop some placeholders in their bank and say they were cleaned. There is validity in the fact that if you were curious of your progress, you could have hiscore'd the account, or just asked him for a progress update. In 2 days, if he had people ahead of you, I wouldn't expect him to get much done. It's not unreasonable for him to put your account behind services he's already doing.

    No - I don't have any screenshots that include the date. The reason I didn't take any screenshots is because like I've said in my original post placeholders aren't actual proof of anything. I already knew that. It had nothing to do with being curious of my mining level it was me just wanting to play the game. He hadn't started the long list of quests yet, so I didn't think it mattered at all considering he told me I was behind 2 other people. All he was doing was afk mining in the Fally mine. He hadn't done or started anything else on the account.

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    By logging in to his account, *you* are the only access to the account that was "not authorized" at the time of the service. If he had finished the service, and you had found things missing, then you'd have a very legitimate issue on your hands. Doubly so if the service wasn't finished.

    You claiming that I was the ONLY unauthorized person on the account is just false. We have no idea who was involved in taking everything off my account. And we may never know. But yeah I did log in on my account I never denied that in the first place.

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    Asking for a higher price isn't shady, that's him seeing someone else is getting paid more to do the same work, and so as a very logical conclusion, he decided he should be paid more too.

    It's shady when his thread very clearly states his rates on it.

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    Lastly, I don't think anybody is factoring in my motive in all of this. Why would I risk 90mil in a transaction as a low post/low rep guy to pull off a scam of someone providing services on this site? Makes no sense to me at all considering I have nobody to back me up. **IF** I was planning on pulling off a scam why wouldn't I have let him just complete the service first? That way I could have gotten service and then blamed him after the fact for taking my items. 

    I've been on record numerous times saying I don't even expect reimbursement for stolen items because I know it's all circumstantial.

    I can't even imagine how I could prove this with 100% certainty. Screenshots with a date wouldn't prove anything. I'd have to record my PC screen at all times and even then I'm sure there are workarounds to prevent that from being 100% certain.

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    On 2/28/2019 at 6:04 PM, Nuclear Nezz said:

    @Nex we're gonna need your input on who talked to you about getting him banned, along with screenshots if available.

     

    @Viision as you say there are no connections in your TV logs, then I would assume it's not negligence. Granted, it's definitely possible for someone to modify/remove logs before they close teamviewer.

    Either way, I'm inclined to believe nobody accessed the account through your Teamviewer. Worst case scenario, it would have given you an "out" of sorts, if you had actually been the one to take the gold. Removing that option from the table is not "beneficial" so to speak, so it seems more valid.

    @acemad did you have any screenshots (with the date) of the account after you found out it had been cleaned? You have to realize, anybody can plop some placeholders in their bank and say they were cleaned. There is validity in the fact that if you were curious of your progress, you could have hiscore'd the account, or just asked him for a progress update. In 2 days, if he had people ahead of you, I wouldn't expect him to get much done. It's not unreasonable for him to put your account behind services he's already doing.

    By logging in to his account, *you* are the only access to the account that was "not authorized" at the time of the service. If he had finished the service, and you had found things missing, then you'd have a very legitimate issue on your hands. Doubly so if the service wasn't finished.

    Asking for a higher price isn't shady, that's him seeing someone else is getting paid more to do the same work, and so as a very logical conclusion, he decided he should be paid more too.

    Sorry for late response still on vacation,
    not sure why i got involved with this but this is all i got:
    9452606fbedec6eb5027aad500a1c474.pngf04f3e692c72706566cb4ccbce6a92e7.png
    db7b1bf509d0be56925da57c39c20774.pngd070ba809bb8835b2c9d81e023015371.png

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    @acemad We're just trying to cover all of our bases. Could you address as to why you said Nex referred you, when he didn't?

    The date is important because we'd know it was immediately after you logged on the account, rather than (for example) logging on, realizing the service wasn't done, taking items off your account, then taking a screenshot saying "See everything is gone" a day later.

    Being behind people does not mean you can go on your account. Not only did that break his ToS, which is in every single service person's ToS, but you could have impeded his ability to do services on your account. You've already made it very clear you're upset that he didn't finish his service quickly on your account, even stating that in your negative feedback you gave him. The issue with that is 1. you didn't *let* him finish the service, and 2. you broke his ToS that impacted his ability to *do* that service.

    Another example of that. You bring your car to the mechanic because the breaks are fucked. They say sure, we'll do it but we have other cars first. You say okay, leave your keys with them.

    An hour later you come by, take your car, drive it, then complain because you crashed, because your breaks weren't fixed. Then you say they're terrible mechanics because the breaks weren't fixed.

     

    My opinion on this is essentially: you gave your account to him for a service, by taking your account back, you removed his responsibility as the service provider, and ended the service.

    As far as the missing gold, you've both admitted that he *was* working on your account at the time, as when you logged in it was at the fally mine (I'm assuming, since you knew where he was afk mining)

    It doesn't make sense to me as to why he would clean your account, and THEN go to the mine to start the service? If somebody else had logged into the account, why would they walk it back to the mine? I should rephrase on my earlier statement, when you broke the ToS, you became the only *known* person who was not supposed to be on the account, to be on the account.

    He had no connections in his teamviewer log, which suggests pretty strongly that nobody got to his PC. At that point it would mean someone else had your password (assuming it wasn't Viision) and in such a case, wouldn't be his responsibility anyway, unfortunately.

     

    We do try to get as much compensation back to users who get scammed during services as possible. Just this specific case is much different than the average case. Viision admits to the wealth that was on the account, which means he's not trying to hide behind anything. He's admitted to having his TV open, but checked the logs for accounts. In all situations, he has admitted that it could be his end of things. Just the information gathered doesn't support that it was on his end. I'll discuss my thoughts with the rest of staff to come to a decision on this matter, and I'll post that decision here when that is done.

     

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    @Nuclear NezzWhoooaaaa. I'm going to need an actual quote of when I said Nex referred me to Viisions service, because that's definitely not what I said. What I DID say was that Nex had vouched for Viision. Not to me personally, but on Viision's profile (which I viewed before I bought service - hence why I trusted). 

    The reason I reached out to Nex regarding how to take action is because I had bought his scripts and he offered customer support and was highly trusted on this site. I've made that VERY clear from the beginning. And we have Discord conversation dating back to December...just so nobody is under the impression that I DM'd him out of nowhere asking how to get Viision banned.

    g8u0as0.png

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    "The date is important because we'd know it was immediately after you logged on the account, rather than (for example) logging on, realizing the service wasn't done, taking items off your account, then taking a screenshot saying "See everything is gone" a day later."

    You could have easily taken a screenshot AFTER cleaning the account within the same day. That's my whole point, that wouldn't prove anything.

    "The issue with that is 1. you didn't *let* him finish the service, and 2. you broke his ToS that impacted his ability to *do* that service."

    Didn't let him finish my service because he took 90 mil off my account. Why would I let him continue to do anything on my account after that? That in itself should be viewed in my favor. If I had taken my own items off of my own account I'd have still tried to get my service fulfilled. 

    "An hour later you come by, take your car, drive it, then complain because you crashed, because your breaks weren't fixed. Then you say they're terrible mechanics because the breaks weren't fixed."

    It's more like coming by and realizing my car has been stolen or vandalized. Not terrible mechanics, but terrible people. You're again assuming he isn't lying.

    "It doesn't make sense to me as to why he would clean your account, and THEN go to the mine to start the service? If somebody else had logged into the account, why would they walk it back to the mine?"

    If you had read our entire Discord chat I actually mention that to Viision because I thought it was odd. I said something along the lines of "Hmm yeah this is pretty weird. Somebody who would want to steal my items likely wouldn't get me any levels at all". My most educated guess is that he did it to 1) Prove progress on the account 2) Strategically set himself up to look innocent. But yes, I agree that whole thing was odd.

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    Never got a response for this either "**IF** I was planning on pulling off a scam why wouldn't I have let him just complete the service first? That way I could have gotten service and then blamed him after the fact for taking my items. "

    I'm willing to drop this dispute if @Viision agrees to pay me my 30mil (- the mining xp rate that he took to go from 54-56 mining) . That way everyone can be done with this headache and I can be reimbursed at least for the service he barely even did shit for. I'll still be out of 90mil but never expected to get that back, only justice. But it's looking increasingly likely that it won't happen.

     

     

     

     

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    After some thought, our staff team has decided this would be the fairest resolution:

    Viision will refund the original payment of 30M for the account services, minus the cost of services already rendered. For the mining experience, we deem this to not be in excess of 2M.

    As for the missing funds or items on the account, we will side towards inaction, as there is no actual proof or good documentation for us to work with. We are wary of always siding with the higher reputation/feedback user, since it may make it too easy for power-users to get away with bullying and ripping off defenseless people that can't dispute bigger entities. However, in the absence of all other evidence, it is natural that we'd want to assume the innocence of someone who has seemingly made a history of successful transactions prior versus believing the accusations from someone's first-ever trade on the community.

    We recommend that next time you attempt to purchase such a service, you secure and remove unnecessary wealth from your account. You should not risk more than you have to. This advice goes for Viision and other sellers providing account services as well. The service-buyer should be encouraged to properly secure the wealth on his account, such that the service-provider is not held liable for an amount of wealth he did not sign up to be accountable for. Risk-mitigation should be encouraged by both parties in such transactions.

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